Dear Steve,

Truly sorry to hear of your misfortunes - and I agree that the rules relating to scorecards should be more pragmatic as well as taking account of current technology.

However, once again the R&A/USGA failed to take the opportunity to modernise this aspect of the rules when they introduced their amendments effective 1st January this year.

As I understand it, you failed to sign your card -   and as things stand at present, irrespective of the reasons and circumstances, that is a capital offence and you were properly disqualified.   Entering scores into a computer is not recognised by the rules -   indeed the exact opposite applies in that under the rules of golf the Committee may not require a competitor to enter his score into a computer.

Unjust, impractical, illogical and archaic -   welcome to the rules of golf in the 21st century!

Best regards,

As far as Ricky is concerned........stakes marking water hazards are moveable obstructions and relief without penalty is therefore available.

Regards,
Hadyn

Regarding Kevin's question I think I will have to call Peter, because on the face of it the decision seems wrong!

If the ball is not in the bunker, there is no offence in testing the condition of the bunker - e.g. by having the caddie rake the sand.   The only thing I can think of is that it may have been related to improving his area of stance or possibly building a stance.

Thanks for the question from David.

The last time I played the Road Hole with my brother-in law he was on the green in 2, putted into the bunker and ended up with a 7!!

But this is a perfect illustration of the complexities - and illogicality of the rules.

Rule 13.2 - if there is a bunker between David's ball and the hole and he rakes the bunker, he is deemed to have improved his line of play and therefore incurs a penalty.   However........ Rule 13.4 - if he plays out backwards and rakes the bunker, even though it then transpires that the area he has raked is on his line of play, he does not incur a penalty as rights under R13.4 override any considerations under R13.2.

What happens if he plays out backwards, doesn't rake the bunker but then goes back in and rakes it when he realises it is on his line of play........??? 13.2 - penalty, or 13.4 no penalty??

Don't ask me to explain - 'cos I don't know ; only the great and good at the R&A / USGA can answer that one.

Equally, I don't know why that was the ruling in the tour event at the Road Hole - as it would appear to contradict R13.4.

Anyway, it is probably better to play out sideways towards the 18th tee!!

Regards,
Hadyn

This is not a matter of the rules of golf but of the rules of the competition.   It should have been sorted out by the Committee as part of the conditions of the competition.

A common arrangement is to adjust the par / sss so that they are the same for men and women, or alternatively to give courtesy strokes to the ones at a disadvantage.   I can't see how a stroke play competition in these circumstances could be fair - if it is not a 'level playing field' it is hardly a fair competition!!   Perhaps stableford scoring would work.

Regards,
Hadyn

Q 233.   From Marty:

Marty needs to replace the ball on the tee - but he is hitting 3, not 2.   The whiff counts as a stroke, but hitting the ball on the way back doesn't, because a stroke has to be with a forward movement of the club.   However, moving the ball accidentally with the back of the club incurs a 1 stroke penalty and the ball has to be replaced.

Hadyn

Q 232.   From Brigid:

Hello

Can you clear hailstones along the intended line of your putt?   My understanding is that you can define hailstones as loose impediments and you can clear them provided you do not press down on the green.   Am I right in saying you can clear them with anything?

Regards
Brigid Kennedy
Stillorgan, Co Dublin

Regarding Brigid's question......only the Irish would play through a hailstorm!!

However, hail can be treated either as a loose impediment or as casual water and relief taken accordingly.   If she takes relief as a loose impediment it can be removed from her line of putt by any (reasonable) means provided she does not press anything down and thus improve her line of putt.   Using a cap, towel or back of the hand is normal ; using a snow blower would not be considered reasonable!

Regards,
Hadyn

Q 231.   Fron Trevor:

Six months ago I played in a 36 hole stroke tournament and was given the first prize for having the best stroke for 36 holes (18 holes per day for 2 days).   Later found out that the person who scored my card had dropped a ball out of the rough that he had lost and not gone back to the tee to play another ball.   He then went on to say I had done the same thing so I should be disqualified also.   Well as far as I am concerned I played the game according to the rules and did not do this.   As there were only two of us plaiyng together there is no other person to vouche for me.

Thanks for the question from Trevor - an extraordinary result!!

If there was an alleged breach of the rules it should have been sorted out at the time.   It is not clear what was the decision of the Captain / Committee that enabled Trevor to keep the prize but not be recognised as the winner.   It is incumbent on the player to declare a penalty against himself - and if Trevor says he didn't do it, then that is an end to the matter.

The rules specify that once a competition is closed and the result officially announced a penalty cannot be subsequently imposed.   There are a number of exceptions but there is nothing in Trevor's situation which would bring it under any of these exceptions.

To clear his name, Trevor should demand that the Committee refer the matter to the R&A for an official ruling.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Thanks for the question from Alan - he seems to have outlined all the considerations, so not much for me to add!!

It is very much a judgement call - and if in doubt, play a second ball and let the tournament committee make the decision.

However, he should bear in mind that the cuttings will also be loose impediments, so it may be possible to obtain relief under that procedure.

Q 229.   From gg:

Question regarding Interpretation on rule 27.1

The breach of the rules is in not adopting the correct procedure.  The procedure he should adopt depends on where the ball is lost as a result of the dreaded slice.

However, I think 'gg' is asking what if he simply ignores all the rules and procedures and does his own thing - does he incur only a 2 stroke penalty.  If his playing partners are nice people - and he is therefore still alive despite deliberately flaunting the rules - by not adopting the proper lost ball procedure he will be deemed to have played from a wrong place.

If he does not immediately correct his deliberate mistake and play from the right place - i.e. adopt the correct procedure, this is considered a serious breach of the rules and he will be branded a 'very bad boy' and will be disqualified under Rule 20.7c for deliberately ignoring the rules and thereby gaining significant advantage as a result of playing from the wrong place.

Q 228.   From William:

Dear Hadyn,

Good question from Malta - it almost prompts me to launch into my 'campaign for simpler rules of golf' diatribe.   We have 546 pages of rules + decisions from the USGA/R&A and the more they try to clarify, the more they succeed in confusing.

The simple rule in William's case is that B can ask A to mark his ball if he thinks it might affect his shot (e.g. he might hit A's ball).   Equally, A can mark and lift his ball if he thinks that leaving it in place might assist B.

However, neither of these can be done 'when a ball is in motion', so it would appear that the answer is that once B's ball is in motion, A cannot mark his ball - and if he does so, he incurs a 2 stroke penalty.

Alas, there is no further clarification in the rule book as to what would be the outcome in the circumstances described by William.   It seems illogical that A should incur a penalty because there is absolutely no advantage to him in marking his ball - if B's ball hits it, then A can simply replace it without penalty.   Equally if B has asked him to mark his ball, but B becomes impatient and plays his shot anyway, it would seems very unfair to penalise A.

Or perhaps it is a question of intent...if A marks his ball simply because he wants to and with no thought as to whether it might or might not assist B, can he avoid the penalty even if the ball is already in motion??

Sadly, only the USGA/R&A know the answer to these questions - and thus far they have not shared them with the rest of us.

Interestingly, they did decide that when a player marked his ball, lifted it, replaced it and then marked and lifted it again because an incoming ball (in motion) was going to hit it, he did not incur a penalty - so from this we might infer that there would be no penalty in William's case.   However, the USGA/R&A specifically ruled that their decision related only to Rule 16.1.b (lifting and cleaning) and not to Rule 22 (lifting a ball which might assist / interfere with play).

This rule is understandable from B's point of view because if he hits A's ball his own ball may cannon off anywhere and he has to play it from where it comes to rest, but a pretty pointless rule in respect of A!!

Well, that's my opinion anyway!!

Q 227.   From Rick Russell, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia:

Another One for the 'Honesty Box'!!

The most important thing to remember in any consideration in the rules of golf is that it is incumbent on the individual to declare penalties against himself.

In Rick's case, if his friend declared that he had found his original ball, then that is the end of the matter - and no ruling is required, unless Rick could conclusively prove otherwise.   However, I was equally unimpressed with the arbitrary imposition of a 1 shot penalty - either play by the rules and apply them correctly, or accept the fact that the friend had found his original ball, in which case there was no penalty.

Must remember to get character references on the locals next time I play golf in KL!!

Best regards,

Hadyn

Improved Bunker?

Thanks for the question from Daz.

Definitely best if he doesn't go in - as under the ball unplayable relief options he can't drop out of the bunker if the relief he chooses is the 'within 2 club lengths' option or the 'drop on the extension of the line from the hole back through the unplayable spot' option.   However, he can take the 1 stroke penalty and play again from where the previous stroke was played from - which would get him out of the bunker without any additional penalty!

Best regards,

Q 225.  From Phil:

Good question from Phil -

To be honest, I am not sure that the rules authorities have ever considered such a situation.   The Club / Committee can make local rules for abnormal conditions but they have to be consistent with the policy established by the USGA / R&A.

Regarding poor conditions, the recommended local rule is to allow players to lift and place the ball within a defined distance of the problem area - I have never heard of anything approving the use of mats as an alternative.

[n support of the use of mats - I have played on sand courses in the Middle East where you carry your mat around with you and simply lift the ball out of the sand and play each shot off your mat.   It is the only way you can play in such an environment - and nobody cares whether the USGA / R&A agree or disagree!!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 224.  From Alan:

it clearly says in the rules, your allowed to repair pitchmarks on the green, on your line.  We had a debate in the Clubhouse, about how you should ask your marker/opponent, to confirm its a pitchmark, before repairing it.   I actually thought it was a rule, but I cant find it.  You clearly see the Pro's asking, but is it just good practice?   What is the situation about pitchmarks, and how do you deal with a 'dispute'?

Re Alan's question - you can repair pitch marks and damage from old hole plugs - but nothing else.

The normal practice is simply to ask the interested parties to agree that the damage is from one of the above.

If there is a disagreement then in stroke play the player can invoke the second ball rule and nominate which ball is to count if it ultimately transpires that both balls have been played in accordance with the rules - presumably he would nominate his second ball in such circumstances.   He should take his putt with his original ball before repairing the damage to the green.   Whether or not he sinks his first putt, he must then repair the damage and putt with his second ball.   He should refer the matter to the Committee for a decision at the end of the round - the big problem is that if the Committee decides he was entitled to relief, his score with his second ball will count in the circumstances outlined above (and he may have sunk his putt with the original ball but missed the putt with the second ball). It's a bit of a gamble!!

Big problem if it is matchplay - the second ball procedure is not available.   The aggrieved party has to immediately make a 'claim' and should get a member of the Committee to come and adjudicate on the issue.   However, this is not always practical and all that can be done is either to play the ball as it lies without repairing the damage, or to take a chance, repair the damage and then report the matter to the Committee at the end of the round in the hope that they adjudicate in the player's favour!!

Not exactly satisfactory is it???!!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 224.  From Doc. Weiss:

They have just redesigned our golf course.   They planted native grasses around the perimeter.   We are not allowed to hit out of the native grasses.   We are supposed to take a drop with a one stroke penalty.   i maintain it should be treated as ground under repair with no penalty as we are not allowed to hit out of the native grasses.   There is no out of bound stakes in question.   Am i right?

I do believe that the good doctor has a point, albeit that his solution is not correct either.

If there are dry 'environmentally sensitive areas' on the course the Committee / Club should declare them to be either GUR or OB.   The R&A /USGA have determined that where the ESA's are extensive (as in the present case) they should not be designated GUR as it would be 'unduly generous' to allow relief without penalty!!   They should therefore be designated OB ; they also recommend that they be fenced off and clearly marked as appropriate - i.e. with white posts.

As always there is a get out clause in that this rule applies if the ESA has been so declared 'by an appropriate authority'- but the golf regulators do not indicate what they consider to be an appropriate authority - do they mean the humble Club Committee or something akin to the mighty Environmental Protection Agency??

Dr. Weiss should return to his Club armed with this e mail!!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 223.  From The Great Chainsaw:

Please detail rule/rules decisions that cover the grip of the golf club, e.g., materials that can be used and the materials allowd in a golf glove.

Love your site!

Thanks for the question from 'The Great Chainsaw' - is it safe to answer??

Nothing in the rules deals with what golf gloves are made from.   However, regarding equipment, there is an entire committee of the USGA/R&A that deals with exciting issues such as the grip of a golf club, although there does not appear to be any specific reference to the material from which a putter grip may be made.

In summary, the grip of a putter:

- must not be molded for any part of the hand
- may have a non circular cross section,
- may not have any concave surfaces
- should be generally the same along the entire grip
- must not have a cross section greater than 1.75 inches

Oh yes - and it should be capable of withstanding a Chainsaw assault!!

Regards,
Hadyn

Q 222.   From Mike:

My friend and I are having a dispute, if his second shot goes into the woods, that isn't a marked hazard or out of bounds, and he can't find it he must return to where he hit it from and play another ball.   I say he is hitting his fourth shot because rule 27-1 says you must return to the spot the ball was hit from, and under the penalty of one stroke, play another ball.   He says he is hitting his third because the lost distance is the penalty.   Who is correct?

Mike is correct - the penalty for losing the ball is twofold - 'stroke and distance' - you go back to where the previous stroke was played and also incur a 1 stroke penalty, so in the circumstances described he is playing his fourth shot.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 221.  From Joe:

What'a the rule on chipping between holes during play?

Thanks for the question from Joe.

The rule is that during a round a player must not make a practice stroke during the play of a hole.   So,during play, practice chipping and putting is not allowed.   However, between holes is not considered to be 'during play' (e.g. when waiting on the tee) so practice chipping and putting is allowed - but only if it is near the green just played or the next tee to be played.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 220.  From Mark:

I have a question.

I remember a few years back playing in a comp, and I had a plaster on my finger.   Are you allowed to put tape around you fingers in addition to a band-aid?   Or is this against the rules ?

Hi Mark,

If there is medical justification for the additional tape it is OK - if not, it is deemed an 'artificial device' intended to assist with gripping the club and results in disqualification.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 219.   From Ben:

The ball lies in the rough amongst leaves, twigs and dead weeds.  The player removes these loose impediments (without the ball moving) but may have pulled a dead twig/weed from the ground.If so is that a penalty? .

To paraphrase John Wayne, 'the only good twig is a dead one'!

Natural objects which are not fixed, growing or solidly embedded are 'loose impediments' and can therefore be moved without penalty..  In the present case it seems that the items were not growing or solidly embedded, so there should have been no penalty.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 218.   From Hinksy (Australia)

A question that needs to be answered.   A ball was deemed unplayable, it skipped the dam water from tee off and landed on the far side of the dam on the bank in an unplayable position, so a one stroke penalty was taken.   The ball was dropped behind the point of the unplayable spot, but when it was dropped it rolled into a dam which is not marked as a hazard with any pegs.

Does that incur another penalty as the ball was unrecoverable?   Or is he entitled to another free drop using a substitute ball without penalty, as the original ball is now lost in deep water?

Thanks for the question from Hinksy!

Must have been some drive - most dams I have seen are at least half a mile wide ; plus, if it was Down Under, the ball should have rolled away from the water??

Anyway, as it was a dam and contained water it clearly constitutes a water hazard, whether or not it is marked.   That being the case, if the ball rolls into the hazard the player must redrop with another ball and without penalty, and if it still rolls into the hazard, he can then place the ball.

It seems to me that he probably adopted the wrong procedure in the first place - presumably he dropped within 2 club lengths, hence the slope into the dam.  However, having declared his ball unplayable he could have hit another one off the tee or taken the drop anywhere (presumably on flat ground) on the extension of a line back from the hole through the spot where the ball originally lay.

Regards,
Hadyn

Q 217.  From Ralph:

When you hit a ball over a water hazard and it goes beyond the red line, hits a tree and bounces back into the water hazard, where do you drop your ball?

If it hits inside the red line and bounces back into the water hazard, where do you drop your ball?

Thanks for the question from Ralph.

The answer is the same for both questions - he has two options.   Either play again from the spot from which the previous stroke was played, or take a drop anywhere (but not nearer the hole!) on the extension of the line from the hole back through the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard.  The important word is 'last'!!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 216.  From Jacques:

Recently my golf club introduced a rule which prevents male members from using anything other than an iron club from the 18th tee.   Anybody breaking this rule will be disqualified from the competition and possibly expelled from the Club.   Is this against either CONGU rules or the Rules of Golf.   I have been told that Club committees using the CONGU system cannot restrict the use of the golf club of the individuals choice. Is this correct?   Please help to sort out this problem for me.

Possibly a contender for the most interesting question ever!!

I honestly don't know the answer and would recommend that it be submitted to the R&A for an authoritative ruling.

The only comments I can make are that I don't see how CONGU, which is a handicapping organisation, can impose any restriction on which club is used.

As far as the committee of the golf club itself is concerned, it has the authority to make local rules and to define the rules of competitions held at the club.   There is no doubt that under Rule 33.1 it can specify the type of golf ball which can be used in a competition, so by analogy it may be possible that it can specify that only irons may be used on a certain hole - although I know of no rule which confers such authority!   Presumably there is good reason for this restriction - for example the use of a driver may endanger players on another hole.   On the other hand, some people can hit a 6 iron further than others can hit a driver, so any such restriction for this reason would seem illogical!!

I will be interested to know the outcome!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 215.  From George:

Good Day Haydn,

This concerns rule 19-2.   I am not aware that this rule has been changed.   I hit my partner’s cart and penalised myself according to the rule.   My opponent informed me that I was wrong and did not need to penalize myself.

I have checked up on the rule and found no change.   The R&A site is in disarray today so I can’t check there either.  2004 was a long time ago.

Please have there been changes that have happened.

Cheers,
George Haskins

Glad to hear George is alive and well ; I think we should club together to buy him a few golf lessons as he seems to get into terrible trouble by not hitting the ball straight!!

Anyway - the issue is whether the golf cart is deemed to be the equipmentof himself or his partner.   He clearly states that it belonged to his partner, in which case he incurs a 2 stroke penalty (or loses the hole in match play) under Rule 19.2 - which, as far as I am aware, has not changed in recent years!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 214.  From Ryan:

Please tell me - If a ball lands in a bush on the edge of the fairway and is unplayable, What do you do?

1. Drop ball two club lengths with a one shot penalty?
2. Pick ball up and go as far back as you like within the line the ball entered the bush?

If Ryan knew the rules he would probably announce his intention to declare it unplayable and incur a 1 stroke penalty whereon he has 3 options:

1. play a ball as near as possible from the spot where his original ball was last played before it landed in the bush or
2. drop his ball within 2 club lengths of where it lay in the bush when he declared it unplayable (but not nearer the hole) or
3. drop his ball any distance behind the spot where it lay when he declared it unplayable but on the extension of an imaginary line drawn from the hole through the spot where the ball lay.

See - easy really!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 213.  From Denise:

Is it in violation of the rules of golf to use an IPOD during a tournament round of golf?

Must be an anagram......or do I mean gramophone?

Anyway, to answer Denise's question - no problem with listening to her Ipod as far as the rules of golf are concerned, unless she has downloaded some course information or a coaching manual which might assist her with her game.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 212.  From Dave:

I see all sorts of references to nonconforming tees but no examples of which ones are nonconforming.   My playing partners use all kind of weird shapes so how does one know if the tee is legal or not?

The only regulation governing tees is that they should be no longer than 4 inches - what difference that makes to anything is beyond my comprehension!

So, that's work done for the day - must be time for a cup of..............tea!!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 211.  From Vance:

Three competitors are playing a golf match.   After completion of a hole, one competitor claims one of the other competitors nicked the sand in his backswing.   The other competitor did not see the event.   The accused competitor did not believe he committed the offense.   Is there a 2 stroke penalty?

Back to the good old honesty box again.

Golf is the one sport where it is incumbent on the player to declare penalties against himself.   If he said he didn't do it, then he didn't do it - therefore no penalty!!  In addition, if the complainant felt there was an issue, he should have said at the time - but in the absence of a referee, spectators or TV cameras it is down to the honesty of the alleged offender.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Thanks for the question from Don.

Sadly, under Rule 13.4, touching the sand during the backswing is deemed testing the condition of the bunker and therefore incurs a 2 stroke penalty (or loss of hole in matchplay).  : What advantage you gain by touching the sand in such circumstances is beyond my comprehension - but that's what it says in the rules!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 209.   From N J Shaddock:

A question which has come up several times in stroke play, but we cannot find a proper answer in the golf rules.   You hit a ball and it comes to rest against the rake handle which is laying outside the bunker.   When the rake is picked up the ball moves from its original place.   Is this a penalty, or do you replace the ball?

Mr S probably couldn't find it in the rules because, being written by lawyers, a rake is not a rake, it's a moveable obstruction!

Anyway, the answer is indeed to remove the rake and replace the ball in its original position - and there is no penalty.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary section R1 Rake!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 208.   From Stuart:
Ganstead Park Golf Club, Hull England

We were in the golf club the other night and we were talking about Sergio getting disqualified for not signing the correct score.   Can you tell just to stop the arguing amongst us, do professionals mark their own score card or is like the club golfer whose playing partners mark each others cards?

Thanks for the question from Stuart.

I believe that for once the pros are actually treated the same as us mere mortals - and suffer the indignity of having to swap scorecards and record each other's scores.

Regards,
Hadyn

Another question for the 'honesty box'.

Matters relating to handicaps are not governed by the rules of golf.   These are usually the domain of national golf unions and the like, so can vary from country to country.   As the handicap system in the UK differs hugely from that in the USA I would not be so bold as to offer any definitive opinion - or more accurately, the real reason is that I have never studied the different handicap systems in any detail!   From my cursory readings, the UK system is even more complex and less logical even than the rules of golf.

However,.................... if I were Stuart I would feel most aggrieved, as the very fact of questioning the veracity of the scores which he attested is questioning his honesty - and presumably he is a member of the golf club in question!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 206.   From Ray:

Hello Hadyn:

My question probably doesn't arise when decent players compete --but at my standard it occurs all too often.

MULTIPLE PROVISIONALS OFF THE TEE

Is there a numerical limit ?

Presumably if all are identifiable and say the third (third tee shot that is - 5 off the tee) is found, the rules are as commonsense would dictate and the player is then playing six.

Have you any further comments   We should note re multiple provisionals, e.g. we go on the basis that once one is declared provisional the successive others do not need to be ..is this strictly correct ??

Thanks

Ray Sanders   (still a non- golfer)

Thanks for the question from Ray - unusual to say the least!!.

There is specific approval for the use of a second provisional within the rules, so I see no reason why further provisionals cannot be used.   However, I think that the procedures applicable to the first provisional would have to be applied to subsequent provisionals.   It might also be adviseable to take a notebook to keep track of which ball is used as which provisional, so that if one is eventually found, it can be identified and the correct score can be recorded!!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Regarding the abandonment, this is not a matter of the general rules of golf, but rather the specific rules of this competition, so Elizabeth should take it up with the Committee.   However, in the interests of fairness it is customary to provide that in such circumstances either that the entire competition is abandoned, or more commonly that it is decided by the scores over the number of holes completed by all competitors - if at 4.45 pm the last group out had played only 11 holes, then reduce it to an 11 hole competition.

Similarly the handicap issue is not a matter of the general rules of golf, but rather one for the Handicap Committee at the Club.   My personal view is that if the entire competition had been abandoned then all the scores were null and void and should not be relevant to establishing the handicaps the next time people played.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Following the recent storms much of our country looks like a water filled bunker!

Thanks for the question from Stu - this one comes up with alarming regularity, so this is what I wrote last time!!

There are 4 options in these circumstances:

1.   Play the ball as it lies,
2.  Drop without penalty in the shallowest water in the bunker - but not nearer the hole,
3.   Take a 1 stroke penalty and drop outside the bunker on the extension behind the bunker of an imaginary line drawn from the hole back through the point where the ball had lain in the bunker,
4.   Declare the ball unplayable, take a one stroke penalty and then adopt one of the further options available under this relief, namely, drop within 2 club lengths of where the ball last lay in the bunker (assuming this will enable the ball to be dropped outside the bunker) or play again from the spot from which the ball was played before it went into the bunker.

I always have thought this to be grossly unfair as the player is either faced with an impossible shot out of water or alternatively penalised because of circumstances entirely beyond his control ; except, of course, that in theory he should not have been in the bunker in the first place!

However, if Stu proceeds as described, takes the unplayable option and incurs the penalty he is permitted the consolation of cleaning his ball.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Thanks for the question from Jamie.

In fact he incurs a 2 stroke penalty in stroke play as he deflected a moving ball - albeit accidentally - and the ball must be played from where it lands.

Reminds me of a personal encounter with this rule - I splashed a shot out of a bunker, but apparently opened the face of the club too much and the ball went straight up in the air.   I looked around to see where the ball had gone and one of the other players yelled, 'Mind you head!!'   I looked up just as the ball dropped towards my head and instinctively raised my hand and caught it in order to stop it hitting me.   Realising the penalty issue, I then quickly dropped the ball - and called a 2 stroke penalty against myself.   However, when I put my card in, I described the situation to the Committee member - and he immediately disqualified me as my deflection of the ball had been deliberate as opposed to accidental!!

The good news was - I avoided a trip to the hospital!

Best regards,

Hadyn

Thanks for the question from Conor - he must be indoors sheltering as I was just watching the tournament from the K Club near Dublin ; torrential rain and high winds.   We love summer over here!!

You may remember that I published a damning condemnation of the Roe/Parnevik ruling at the time.   I was pleased that the rule was amended - but still not amended enough, in my opinion!

However, to answer Conor's question, I know of no authority that says you have to record the scores in the columns above which the appropriate name is written.   If the names are not crossed out but different initials are entered, then one of the players should have clarified it with a committee member as being 'a doubtful point'.   The players obviously did not consider it to be a doubtful point and clearly the Committee didn't if they didn't raise it with the players under the 'get out' provision.

In any event, on the face of it, in the circumstances described and in my opinion, common sense would dictate that the gross scores to count were individually identifiable from the initials and therefore the scorecard was OK, so there should have been no question of disqualification.

My usual caveat - the 'powers that be' may take a different view!!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Hello Ben from Maui,

I have copied our authority on golf rules, Hadyn Rutter.   Hadyn lives near London so he is really on the opposite side. Now I am going to take a cut at your question. Then Hadyn will set us straight.

You can't do anything to the leaves or branches to improve your swing.   Let them be and swing away.   You may remember a few years ago at the PGA played at Medinah, Sergio played from behind a tree and banged his club into it.   Tiger broke a 5 iron during the Masters banging into a tree.   In both these cases they knocked some bark loose.   What you cannot do is have your caddy or anyone else stand where they move the branches and hold them so they don't interfere with your swing.

Here is one I'm not sure of.   When taking my normal stance I move a branch, or putting it another way, if the only way I can take my stance is among branches which move now what?   I can remember an Open Championship where Arnold Palmer was off in a thicket or some kind of bush and he went in somehow and played a wonderful shot and went to win the Open.   He had to move branches to get into the bush.   Let's see what Hadyn says on that one.

Best regards,
Don

Don, you seem to have taken this one to heart!!

Anyway, Ben (and Don)...........the rule is that there is no penalty if the player improves his area of intended swing (i.e.knocks down a few leaves or twigs) when he is 'fairly' taking his stance or if he is making a stroke or making the backward movement of the club for a stroke.   'Fairly' allows you to back into a branch if it is the only way you can adopt your normal stance.

If it is only a practice swing and leaves or twigs are knocked down, he may be penalised for improving his area of intended swing - but this is a question of fact and degree as to whether the area was actually improved.

Hope this keeps you both happy!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 200.   From George:

Dear Hadyn,
Your answer to Jeff [Jeff's question is below] said that if his ball is hit by his opponent’s on the putting green, you said that was no penalty to either player.  Are you saying that rules 19.5 no longer exists?

If this is the case, when was it changed please?  Rule 18-3 then also comes into question.   Jeff did say he was playing a stroke play competition.  In match play your answer would be correct.
Thanks,
George Haskins

P.S.   I know we are behind the times in South Africa BUT we are not that far behind.   Internet is as up to date as can be.

Good job George is there to keep me honest!!

I guess I assumed (wrongly) that as the question was so obvious, the player had made his putt from off the green.   Having re-read the question, it is not stated from where the putt was made - so if it was from the green then as Jeff makes it clear that it was stroke play, George is absolutely correct that rule 19.5 applies.   My answer to Jeff is still correct in that he is not penalised - but his fellow competitor should have incurred a 2 stroke penalty.

However, George does refer to Jeff's 'opponent', which is a match play term - and if it were match play then as George states, there would be no penalty against either player.

Apologies to my reader - and my thanks to George!

All the best,
Hadyn

Q 199.  From Patrick:

Is a practice swing allowed in a bunker.Or would it be deemed to be testing the sand?.

Thanks for the easy one from Patrick!

If he hits the sand with his practice swing, it is indeed deemed to be testing the condition.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 198.  From Jeff:

In stroke play, I did not make my ball on the putting green.   My competitor hit my ball when he putted.   My ball was located 10 ft. past the hole in his putting line.   He did not ask me to mark my ball.

Do I get a 2 stroke penalty for not marking my ball?

Regarding Jeff's question -   he is under no obligation to mark his ball, and if it is moved when another player's ball hits it he must replace it in its original position.  The other player's ball must be played as it lies - and there is no penalty against either player.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 197.  From Bill:

I chipped up to three inches from the pin. I putted it in without taking out the flag to speed up play.   The ball did not hit the pin.   Am I penalized, and if so, what?

My note to Hadyn:

Hi Hadyn,

Bill should find someone else to play with.   The penalty is a round of drinks paid by his opponent for not tossing him the ball or saying, "pick it up, that's good!"

Best regards,
Don

Hi Don,

Excellent answer - and mine's a large one, please!

Sadly for Bill, the 'authorities' deem that it is impossible for a ball to fall into the hole without hitting the flagstick if the flagstick is also in the hole.  As the rules impose a 2 stroke penalty for hitting an unattended flagstick when puting from the green, Bill would therefore be penalised accordingly.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Q 196.  From Chuck:

My opponent marks his ball on the green with a golf tee placed in the ground vertically.   My putt not only hits the tee but its speed is impeded considerable and stops well short and off line.   What rules, if any, are breached and what are the penalties, if any?

Are there restrictions to the type, size and/or configuration of a marker?   Is this more of an etiquette thing and it's my responsibility to have him change the marker?

Note: I always guess at the answer before I send these questions on to Hadyn.   Occasionally I'm right! - Don

Hi Hadyn

I thought you asked for the marker to be moved and then you're on your own. ???

Best regards,
Don

Hi Don,

Sorry for the delay in replying - short holiday skiing the golf courses of Colorado!

Re Chuck's question - your answer summarises it admirably!   The tee as a marker is perfectly acceptable and as such is a moveable obstruction so the player can ask to have it moved without penalty.   If he doesn't - and if the ball hits it - no penalty and he must play the ball as it lies after the deflection.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Hi Hadyn,

This came in for Scott who would not know the shoe rule, assuming there is one.   Especially in Bulgaria.   Everywhere I've played there is some kind of proper dress rule, determined by the club and enforced maybe the local pro but usually by a marshal.

You have my curiosity up; what is ?
"... decision 24.2b 14 by the USGA passed into law the very circumstance you described which Gene encountered!!"

[Note:To put the above in context, I commented to Haydn that Gene Sarazen considered his greatest golf shot one he played during a Ryders Cup match, not his double eagle at the Masters.

Gene was down a hole or two. His opponent was on the green in 2 while Gene's second shot ended up inside a refreshment stand nearby the green. Under the circumstances Gene decided to play from inside the stand off the concrete floor. He hit the ball through an open window stiff to the pin. Gene's opponent 3 putted, Gene made his to win the hole and he went on to win the match.]

Another "Sarazenism" for you -- Gene always thought golf would be a better game if played to 12 holes instead of 18.

Best regards,
Don

Hi Don,

I like the 12 hole rule - if it were any 12 of 18, I would be a pro by now!!

I also believe that there should be only 15 simple rules - instead of 34 + over 120 sections + over 100 subsections + over 4000 decisions interpreting the rules.   It is a sad condemnation of how bad the rules are when 3000 decisions have been necessary to interpret them!!

24.2b/14 - player hits his ball into the clubhouse, opens a window and then chips out on the basis that although the clubhouse was an immoveable obstruction, a window is a moveable obstruction and opening it constitutes moving it within the limits of the rules. R&A / USGA agreed - so no penalty was incurred.

However, moving on to something simple - there is nothing in the rules of golf requiring or regulating the wearing of shoes.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Thanks for the question from Alex.

He is obliged to go over and identify it ; if it is his, he is also obliged to play the original ball and cannot simply opt to play the provisional.

He cannot simply declare the provisional to be a substitute.   His original ball is only lost (and therefore cannot be played) if it is not found within 5 minutes or if, before his opponent found it, he has treated it as lost by playing a further stroke with the provisional.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 193.  From Arjun:

Dear Mr Hadyn,

It is great pleasure that I am mailing you.   I am from India and play an handicap of 6.   Today we have an issue in our 4 ball.

My opponent 's ball was laying in the fairway but there was a stone under it .....does he get a relief for it or does he have to play as it lies, and what if the same sitution was if one's ball is on the stone in the rough?

Thanks,

Arjun Kuchhal
Copper Chimney Restaurant
Jaipur

In answer to Arjun's question - stones are 'loose impediments' and may be moved without penalty.   However, if in moving the loose impediment, the player also causes the ball to be moved, then he incurs a 1 stroke penalty and must replace the ball in its original position.   So in the circumstance described he would probably have to play the ball as it lies - and the same rules apply if the ball were in the rough.

This is another rule which I consider to be unfair - if you have put the ball in the fairway, which is the object of the game, why should you be penalised in such circumstances.   If the stone were not a natural object but a man made object (such as a brick) and the ball lay on it, as it is then an 'obstruction' the player is entitled to lift the ball, remove the obstruction and drop the ball in approximately the same place - all without penalty.   Totally illogical!!

Best regards,

Hadyn

Nothing in the rules specifically prevents such a stroke - provided that it cannot be considered testing the surface (unlikely, as this normally only applies if using the ball or hand) or damaging the green (this is a matter of etiquette, not a rule).   Also, it should be borne in mind that to be a valid stroke the ball must be hit and not pushed.

Best regards,

Q 191.  From Adam:

Imagine a "c" shaped pond in front of the tee with fairway in the centre of it.   Now if I hit my shot travelling over the bottom half of the "c" shaped pond and land in the top part without bouncing, were should I drop?.

My understanding is at the point I "last" crossed the boundry of the water hazard.   This would be just inside the top of the "c" shape.   Arguments have started whilst discussing this as some people think it is the point at which you first crossed the hazard. In this example it would mean playing from back at the tee area.

Any help with this would be appreciated.

Adam is right - the key word is 'last', so in his case the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard at the point he indicated, so he can drop the ball at any point on the extension of a line drawn from the hole back through the point where his ball last crossed the hazard.

However, this is an 'either / or' situation so ironically, his friends are also right - the other option (and the choice would be Adam's) is to play the ball from the spot where the original ball was played - i.e. the tee!!

Best regards,

Hadyn

Q 190.   From Daniel:

I have a question about the rule 16.2 ball overhanging hole.

If I putt for par (par 3) and the ball overhangs and finally falls in after the 10 second rule.   I believe I have a score of 4 but my friend said it is a 5 .   Who is correct?

The player is deemed to have holed out with his 3rd stroke but has to add a 1 stroke penalty - total 4.   But remember - the 10 seconds only starts when you get to the hole, provided you take a reasonable time in getting to the hole from where you putted.

Regards,

Hadyn

Does the Spider Move Make It Legal?

Your opinion, kind sir.

To answer Bucky's question, the line of putt extends only from the ball to the hole, so crouching down etc. behind the ball to establish the line prior to making a stroke is permissible - as long as it does not constitute testing the surface of the green or damaging somebody else's line of putt / damaging the green.

The last two, provided they are not deliberate, are offences against etiquette rather than against the rules of golf.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Q 188.   Follow up from Tony on his question last week.  Tony took Hadyn's advice and asked the R&A.

Hi Hadyn,

Thank you for you response regarding a player playing off a wrong handicap in a stableford comp and claiming more shots than he was entitled to.   Since writing to you we have had a response from the R&A as follows.

I would confirm that the interpretation of the phrase “effects the number of strokes received ” in the context of rule 6-2b is whether the competitor was allocated more shots than he would have been entitled to if he had declared the correct handicap.  Whether the additional stroke or strokes are used by the player during the round, or whether the player gets any benefit from the stroke or strokes ,is irrelevant.   Therefore in this case the committee correctly disqualified the player under rule 6-2b."

Thanks for the update from Tony - exactly what I would have expected from my 'learned' friends at the R&A.

Why make a logical and sensible ruling when you can make life confusing and difficult for the average golfer.   If I were a cynic I might contemplate that if the rules were clear and simple, the R&A / USGA wouldn't need a whole raft of staff and members to make up their rules committees. Fortunately, I am just a simple golfer!

Do you 'receive' 10 handicap strokes when on that particular course it is only possible to utilise 9??  Of course not - a player cannot receive what cannot possibly be given!

In a very similar case a 9 handicap player mistakenly declared a 10 handicap, used all 10 strokes and won the competition - but nobody noticed the error until after he had been declared the winner ; this was referrred to the R&A who decided........that the result should stand!! Common sense and consistency??

......and before anyone tells me that the above case was decided under a different rule which says that a penalty cannot be imposed after the competition has closed unless the player knowingly played off a higher handicap - I already know, but still disagree with the R&A's view of Tony's case!!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Please clarify.

Good question from Tony Williams - and of sufficient complexity to warrant a referral to the R&A for an authoritative answer.

My humble opinion is..............under Rule 6.2b, it is the responsibility of the competitor to record his correct handicap on the scorecard.   If he records a higher handicap and this affects the number of strokes received, he is disqualified from the competition.  If it doesn't affect the number of strokes received, then the score stands.

It is not clear whether 'strokes received' means strokes to which he is entitled, or strokes actually taken.   In the present case, he was entitled to 10 strokes, but could only actually take 9 because of the problem with 2 holes.   So (fortuitously) he actually benefited from the correct number of handicap strokes as if he had declared the correct handicap.   I would take the pragmatic view that he secured no advantage from the error and therefore he should not have been disqualified.

However, there is no guarantee that my colleagues at the R&A / USGA would take the same view.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Q 186.   From George:

Good Day Haydn,
I landed in a mud patch the other day.   There was still a little water in this patch.   Nobody, in my club, has come up with a suitable answer.  I played the ball as it lay and then played a second in the hopes.   This mud was on the entrance to the fairway at the end of a mown path between the rough.   As mud is a mixture of water and sand does this constitute casual water?  If it is, I was spattered with this muck for nothing.

Thanks,
George Haskins

George certainly comes up with some good ones!

To constitute casual water, the water must be visible before or after the player takes his stance ; if he can see it, then it is probably casual water from which the player is entitled to relief.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Q 185.   From Patrick:

A player sets his ball up on the tee.   He takes his stance preparatory to making a stroke.  He then decides (according to his own admission afterwards) to take a practice swing from this position.  In doing so he strikes the ball sending it several yards off the tee.   Should his ball now be considered in play?

Thanks for the question from Patrick.

If it was indeed a practice swing and the ball was struck accidentally, then as the ball was not in play at the time of the swing,   it is not considered to be a stroke.   So, the ball was not in play, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced on the tee!

Back to watching golf on tele!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Thanks for the question from Pete - don't quite understand it, therefore the answer must be 'No'!!   I think he must have read the rule book after a couple of beers.

Equally I don't think either common sense or morality are reflected in the rules of golf!!

If indeed there were 2 competitions - morning and afternoon - then they are precisely that, and the card from one cannot possibly count in the other.   If it were one competition with the option of morning or afternoon start times then, equally obviously, either a morning or afternoon card can count.

Decision 32/1/1 is not relevant as that is case specific and relates to playing simultaneously in two different types of stroke play competition i.e.scoring stroke play and stableford from the player's scores in one round. Likewise 33.3 does not apply as it relates only to times of starting and group pairings.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Thanks for the question from Bill - glad he addresses me with the respect I deserve (as I don't get that at home!)

Bill and his friends are obviously very forgiving people.   Once a ball is in play and the player causes the ball to move with a practice swing he is in breach of Rule 18.2, he incurs a 1 stroke penalty and must replace the ball in its original position.   The fact that he may not have addressed it is irrelevant.   It does not count as a stroke because he didn't intend to strike the ball - hence he has to replace it ; if it had counted as a stroke he would have had to have played it as it lay.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary section P12 Practice swing.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 182.   From Alan:

I have just bought some tee pegs which state on the packet ”conforms to the Rules of Golf”.   I did not know there were rules about the type of tee pegs.   What are they?

Thanks for the question from Alan -   unbelievably the R&A/USGA did decide in 2004 to legislate on the exciting subject of tee pegs - and decided on just one rule, namely that they should be no more than 4 inches in length!   These guys really do need to get a life!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Whilst playing in a foursomes match recently, one of my opponents was putting on the green and his partner stood behind the hole watching his line of putt.   is this allowed as he would be able to see any movement of the hole if his partner did not sink his putt.?

Thanks for the question from Trevor.

In foursomes the nature of the game is that each side plays only one ball and the players play alternate shots in turn, so there would be no advantage in the partner standing behind the hole to see the line of putt.

I assume Trevor means fourball better ball - but in either case there is no penalty against the player or his partner in these circumstances provided that the line of putt is not touched.   This would be deemed either obtaining advice by observation or, even if the partner specifically pointed out on the line of the putt , this is permissible in a team game.

Best regards,
Hadyn

I see the words 'common sense' and 'logic' - neither of which can be assumed in anything to do with the rules of golf!

I am confused as to the precise circumstances giving rise to the question from PeterLaneontheMurrayRiverdownunder.   As the hole in question seems to have been halved - whatever the score -  I assume it was a match play situation.  If so, the recorded score is irrelevant as match play is scored by 'hole won', 'hole lost' or 'halved'.

If it was a strokeplay or stableford competition, then the player would be disqualified if his card as submitted recorded a score lower than that actually taken at the relevant hole.   There is an exception if it was a stableford competition and if the gross score does not affect the stableford points scored - for example, if the 6 or 7 was taken at a par 3 hole where the player received only one handicap stroke, he would not be disqualified because the stableford score would be 0 points whether it was a gross 6 or 7.

Hope that this covers most of the bases!

Best regards,
Hadyn

Thanks for the question from John.

As the local rule prohibiting play from an area which is ground under repair is one which complies with the specimen local rules approved by the R&A/USGA, breach of it incurs a 2 stroke penalty in accordance with Appendix 1 Part B 1(a) of the Rules of Golf.

Best regards,
Hadyn

hanks for the question from Alan. . Rule 6.2b specifies only that the handicap must be correctly recorded on the score card - as I assume 'correctly' refers to the accuracy of the handicap and not the position on the scorecard, the rule doesn't specify where, so I believe Alan complied with the rule (albeit inadvertently!)

Incidentally, he need not add the scores and apply his handicap deduction, as that is the reponsibility of the Committee which organised the competition.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Always good to hear from George, especially when he gives the wrong ruling!

Hard to believe, this sort of thing has happened before!

The player who played the stroke has 2 options under Rule 19.3.  Either he can cancel the stroke and play again from where the previous shot was played, or, as in George's situation, he can take a drop - without penalty - dropping the ball as near as possible to where it was when it ended up in the pocket.

For a full explanation see The Golf Rules Dictionary section B8 Ball deflected or stopped.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Q 176.   From Jennifer:

While playing in a amateur tournament, I putted and left my ball about 10 inches short of the hole.  I asked and was allowed to putt out.  In order not to step on the line of another player's putt, I widened my stance.  The width of my stance caused one foot to be past the hole, but both of my feet were behind the line of my putt.  I know that you can't stand astride of your own line, but my fellow competitor said that you have to have both feet on the same side of the hole as your ball.  I can't find this in the rules.

I agree with Jennifer, as I can't find it in the rules either!

Maybe her fellow competitor was confusing it with the rule which does not permit the player to make a stroke from a stance which touches the line of putt or its extension beyond the hole.   However, this does not prohibit having one foot on either side of the hole - as long as the stance does not touch the line or is not astride the line, or its extension beyond the hole.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Q 175.   From Robert:

Playing in a foursome Stableford competition, unfortunately during my back swing with a driver off the tee the head completely detached itself and before I could stop.   I continued with the down swing.  One of my opponents, not with standing the fact that the club head narrowly missed hitting him on the head, just muttered, "you're playing two off the tee".

Is he correct?.

Thank you and keep up the good work

Robert Bruce

Thanks for the question from Robert Bruce - is he related to the legendary Robert the Bruce (for those with Scottish ancestry)? The answer to the question does not depend on ancestry.  The 'stroke' is not counted as a stroke - because a shaft without a head on it is not considered to be a club with which the player is capable of making a stroke.  So no stroke, no penalty and start over again.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary section S26 Stroke.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Thanks for the question from Bill - glad he addresses me with the respect I deserve (as I don't get that at home!)

Bill and his friends are obviously very forgiving people.  Once a ball is in play and the player causes the ball to move with a practice swing he is in breach of Rule 18.2, he incurs a 1 stroke penalty and must replace the ball in its original position.  The fact that he may not have addressed it is irrelevant.  It does not count as a stroke because he didn't intend to strike the ball - hence he has to replace it ; if it had counted as a stroke he would have had to have played it as it lay.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary section P12 Practice swing.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 173.   From Evelyn:

When your ball is hit on the GREEN by another player, you place it back as near as possible to where it had been lying.

If your ball is hit on the FAIRWAY, and it is hard to see from where the ball originally lay, does the same rule apply?

Thanks for the question from Evelyn.

The answer is 'yes' - except that if the exact spot cannot be determined the ball must be dropped (not placed) in approximately the same location.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary sectin B18 Ball moved when stationary.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Thanks for the question from June Simons.

Alas, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions......and the rules of golf occasionally punish courtesy! Under the interpretations of Rule 13.4 a player was deemed to have tested the condition of the bunker when he stuck the rake handle in the bunker prior to playing his stroke - so I have no doubt that June's courteous raking prior to playing her stroke would similarly incur a penalty.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary section B33 Bunker.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 171.   From Mike:

Thanks for the question from Mike.

If he brushes sand on the green on his line of putt with his hand there is no penalty.   However, if he does so off the green he has touched the line of putt and incurs a 2 stroke /loss of hole penalty under Rule 16.1a.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary section L7 Line of putt/play

Best regards,

Hadyn

Q 170.   From Niall:

I have discovered while on the putting green that rather than pick a marker on the green for my line that if i rest my putter between the hole and the ball I get a better line which has improved my putting immensely, is this allowed under the rules of golf?

I would be grateful for any help in this matter.

Thanks for the question from Niall.

The answer depends on where he touches the green between his ball and the hole.

The general rule is that a player may not touch the line of his putt - and if he does there is a 2 stroke / loss of hole penalty under rule 16.1.  : However, there is an exception which permits him to touch the line of putt without penalty if it is as part of his address routine, involves placing his putter head immediately in front of the ball and does not result in pressing anything down (so as to improve the line of putt).

For a full explanation see The Golf Rules Dictionary section L7 Line of Putt

Best regards,
Hadyn

Q 169.   From Alan:

Our golf society were playing on our local course and one of our players hit his ball into a Bunker and into a hole in the bunker about 6 inches into and under the lip of the bunker.   A friendly discussion occurred as to a ruling .   If it was classed as a rabbit scrape/hole could he have dropped his ball on top of the bunker, nearest point of relief . or as 95% of us believe, he must drop into the bunker .  Please help !

I am always up to date on rabbits - rabbit pie is one of the delicacies at our local golf club!

Thanks for the question from Alan.   He can drop in the bunker without penalty - but not nearer the hole than where the ball originally lay, or outside the bunker with a 1 stroke penalty - and if he drops outside it must be on the extension of the line from the hole back through the spot in the rabbit hole where the ball originally lay.

Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing.

Best regards,

Hadyn

I quite like the idea of a book - Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Provisionals, But Were Afraid To Ask??

Thanks for the question from Craig.

If people are thinking how they can abuse the rules, then they shouldn't be playing golf in the first place.   As that great English golfer, William Shakespeare, wrote in one of his plays, 'We are all honourable men!'

However, R27.2 should not really be capable of abuse, even by those evil people who would wish to try.  A provisional is a time saving procedure and can be used only if the original ball is / may be lost or out of bounds.  Having not declared it to be a provisional, it does indeed become the ball in play, but the player incurs a 1 stroke penalty.  In the 'Scenario', the original must be looked for and if the original is found, it must be played and the 'provisional' cannot then be used.  Also, when the original is found the penalty incurred with the 'provisional' is cancelled and play resumes with the original.  If it is genuinely lost - i.e. cannot be found within 5 minutes - then the provisional must be used, and the player incurs both the lost ball penalty and the penalty for failing to declare the provisional.  A player cannot simply treat a ball as lost by declaring it to be so.

So, there is no real opportunity for cheating, unless the player finds it but doesn't declare that he has found it.  If someone is determined to cheat then the rules are almost irrelevant - particularly in golf where it is incumbent on the player to abide by the rules and declare any breaches himself.  There are no referees looking over his shoulder, although his fellow competitors may well be keeping a keen eye on him!

Best regards,

Hadyn

Loved every minute of the US Open - proper golf at last, none of this 26 under par rubbish!!   Felt sorry for Monty - but I suspect he psyched himself out of it ,and made the fatal mistake of changing his mind.

Re Question 1 - the answer depends on where the ball was lost!!.

If it was in abnormal ground conditions, the player must determine the spot where it entered the ANC, establish the nearest point of relief to that spot and then drop within 1 club length of the nearest point of relief.

If it was in a water hazard, he can either determine the point where it entered the hazard and then drop behind the hazard any distance on the extension of the line from the hole back through the entrance point, or he can take the stroke and distance option and play from where the previous stroke was played.

If lost in a lateral water hazard, in addition to the water hazard options, he can opt to drop within 2 club lengths of the point where it entered the hazard or within 2 club lengths of a point on the opposite margin of the hazard opposite to where it entered.

Finally, if it was lost anywhere else, he must take the stroke and distance penalty and go back to where the previous stroke was played from.

Question 2

The player has 3 options :

1. Stroke and distance
2. Drop within 2 club lengths
3. Drop back on the extension of the line from the hole through the unplayable lie.

If he adopts 2 or 3, he must drop in the bunker.

Hope that clears it up - especially for Evelyn!!

Best regards

Hadyn

Not desperately important but my friends and I are in dispute over how the "honour" is determined in Stableford competitions.   My (pre 2004) edition of "The Golf Rules Dictionary" states that in these competitions order of play is decided by net score.   In general strokeplay it is by gross score. Rule 10 does not mention how order of play is determined in Stablefords but indicates that in all strokeplay competitions it is only gross score which is ever taken.   Was there a change in 2004?

Thanks for the question from Paul.

Whilst Rule 10 does indeed deal with Order of Play, and whilst it would have been logical to include the rule relating to the honour in Stableford, in order to confuse us mere mortals the R&A/USGA hid this in Rule 32 (dealing with Stableford).  To make life even more difficult, it is not actually specified in the rule itself, but in a decision interpreting the rule!

The procedure is still the same post 2004.

Best regards,
Hadyn

Can a person go with them if they are playing in the competition?

First an update from London, then Pam's question.   Things here are just wonderful - summer arrived a couple of days ago and should last for another week!   I try to avoid the madness that masquerades as news / newspapers.   For the next month we are swamped with World Cup soccer coverage - I love football, but 24 x 7 of anything is not good.  I think with my 'Bah, humbug' attitudes I would make an excellent Dickensian recluse!

As far as the question from Pamela is concerned - it does indeed depend......................................... but on the rules of the competition in which she is playing, as opposed to the rules of golf, which do not deal with who can and who cannot ride on a buggy.  In the absence of anything specific for the competition, I guess she can do whatever she wants to!

That's about as technical as I can get on this one!

Best regards,

Hadyn

Part III: Please explain "stroke and distance" penalty.

Thanks for the questions from John McLeish.  Re parts 1 and 2, the procedure is the same whether it is lost out of bounds or in the rough.  Once the original ball is lost, having played a provisional ball it becomes the ball in play and it lies 3 strokes - i.e. the next stroke will be the fourth.

'Stroke and distance' is a popular description of the normal lost ball procedure under which, once the ball has not been found within the 5 minute search period the player adopts the penalty procedure under Rule 27.   He takes a 1 stroke penalty and plays another ball from the spot from which the original ball was played.   The 'stroke' is the penalty stroke and the 'distance' is going back to where the original ball was played from.   When he again plays from the original spot it is his 3rd stroke.

The provisional ball procedure is an attempt to save time instead of going through the above procedure and having players going back 200 yards or so to the tee having already spent 5 minutes searching - but the end result is still the same.  If the provisional ball is eventually adopted because the original can't be found, the first stroke with the provisional ball is the third for scoring purposes.   A couple of relevant points - you can't simply declare a ball lost. It is only lost if it isn't found within the minutes or if the player has treated it as lost by playing another ball before the 5 minutes has expired - e.g by playing the 4th stroke with the provisional in John's case.

Also, The procedure is different if the ball is lost in a water hazard or in abnormal ground conditions.

Hope this answers the questions!!

Best regards, Hadyn

He was hitting his 3rd from his dropped ball.   Are there any ramifications to playing a provisional ball because you think you are OB, only to find it as lateral hazard?   I was confused and thought maybe since we never actually found his tee shot, that he would be required to play the provisional since he hit a provisional.   But, I didn't say much other than barely asking if they were procedurally correct.   This took place in a stroke play competition.

Ummmm............why don't they just hit the ball straight and then these issues would not arise??

Alternatively, if I were King of the USGA the rules would be simple - there would be no such thing as provisional balls, water hazards, lateral water hazards, out of bounds, lost ball or stroke and distance.  If the ball wasn't in the fairway, the player would have 3 choices -

1. play it as it lies without penalty or,
2. drop it within 1 club length of where it lay with a 1 stroke penalty or
3. drop it (or if it can't be found or picked up, drop a replacement ball) back in the fairway with a 2 stroke penalty.

The answer to Ted's question is that if, having played a provisional, it then transpires that the original ball is probably lost in a water hazard, he must pick up the provisional and take the relief and penalty specified by rule 26.1 - so in the circumstances it looks as though he did adopt the correct procedure.

Same answer if he believed it to be OB - but then found it in a water hazard.

: See the good old Golf Rules Dictionary sections L10 Lost ball and P16 Provisional ball!!

Best regards

Hadyn

What happens if you chip your ball onto the green and it hits an opponents ball, knocking it in?   Is it a score for the opponent, or does he have to take the ball out of the hole and rehit it, or do you (the hitter) score on the shot.

Thanks for the question from Nancy.

Nancy's opponent has to take his ball out of the hole, replace it and play it from where it originally lay, but Nancy has to play her ball from where it came to rest.   There are no penalties.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary sections B8 Ball deflected or stopped and B18 Ball moved when stationary

Best regards

Hadyn

Can you rule on this one for me.   I am on the green and address the ball with my puttter.  Threre is a gust of wind and the ball blows backwards onto my puttter.  Should I be penalsied regards this? and if so what penalty?

A lot of hot air around in London these days!

To answer Dave's question......it's a good news and bad news situation.   When the ball is moved by the wind it must be played from where it comes to rest and usually there is no penalty.   However, if the player or his equipment then stops the moving ball - even accidentally and whether or not he had addressed it - he loses the hole inatch play ;  in stroke play he incurs a 2 stroke penalty and must play it from where it lies.

See the Golf Rules Dictionary sections B8 Ball deflected or stopped and B18 Ball moved when stationary

Best regards,

Hadyn

Ball is on the green.   My partner takes some practice putts a couple of feet to the side of the ball and touches his club on the green while practicing.   He takes his stance to putt the ball but had not completed his address because he had not grounded his club.   The ball moves about 2 to 3 inches toward the hole.   There was no wind or outside agency to cause the ball to move.   He did replace the ball and putted.   Does he incur a stroke penalty for the ball moving?

Thanks for the question from Harvey.

We live in a haunted house - if that is any use??  Sadly, there is not much in the rules under ' ball moved for no apparent reason'!!

However, if the player did not cause it to move, if he hadn't addressed it and if it wasn't moved by the wind, I guess it can only be deemed to have been moved by an outside agency - in which case the ball should be replaced without penalty in its original position and played from there.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary section b18 Ball moved when stationary.

Best regards,

Hadyn

George

To paraphrase the words of (another) great Englishman .   'The rumours of my demise are greatly exaggerated'!! .  I am well and currently commiserating quietly- but not alone - with an excellent bottle of Argentinian Chardonnay.!

I think the answer lies in George's e mail address..   george@insomnia.co.za

Best regards,

Hadyn

I have one simple question, but cannot find it in the rule book at all.  We were wondering when a player is taking a practice stroke and accidentally hits his ball does he get penalized or does he just retrieve it and place it in its original spot?   Also, When he addresses the ball and it moves does he get penalized?

Thanks for the questions from Bill,Jill and Jacob!!

The answer is..............it all depends on the circumstances!   Normally, if the incident is on the tee and the ball is moved by a practice swing before it is 'in play', there is no penalty.  However, if the ball is 'in play' then it is deemed to have been moved by the player and he incurs a 1 stroke penalty - plus the ball must be replaced in its original position before the next stroke is played.

It is the same deal regarding moving the ball after having addressed it.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary sections A2 Addressing the ball, B18 Ball moved when stationary and P12 practice swing.>p> Best regards,

Hadyn

What happens if you chip your ball onto the green and it hits an opponents ball, knocking it in?   Is it a score for the opponent, does he have to take the ball out of the hole and rehit it, or do you (the hitter) score on the shot?

Thanks for the question from Nancy..

Nancy's opponent has to take his ball out of the hole, replace it and play it from where it originally lay, but Nancy has to play her ball from where it came to rest.   There are no penalties.

See The Golf Rules Dictionary sections B8 Ball deflected or stopped and B18 Ball moved when stationary.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Can you please let me know the exact player responsibilities and if the competition committee has acted in the correct manner?

Thanks for the question from Tony Dunstan - ridiculous !!

I can't believe that this could possibly have happened.  The player's responsibility is limited only to ensuring that his correct handicap is recorded on the card, the correct gross scores have been recorded and that the card has been properly signed.

The committee can only disqualify a person in the circumstances set out in the rules of golf - and failing to fill in the date definitely does not fall within those circumstances.

We are dealing with the sport of golf, not form filling ; there must be some other reason for the disqualification - if not, this committee should be banned from holding any positions of responsibility in golf - for life!!

Best regards,

Hadyn

What is the rule?

I'm not impressed with the Pro who made the ruling in this case!

An artificially surfaced cart path is under normal circumstances an immoveable obstruction - from which a player is entitled to relief without penalty if his ball is on it or is so close to it that it interferes with his stance or area of intended swing.

This relief is not dependent on the player advising anyone else - so he should not have been penalised for not informing his side's opponents.

See the Golf Rules Dictionary section O3 Obstructions

Best regards,

Hadyn

My question relates to the whether their was any penalty at all as the second player had not put his own ball into play.   Could it be that player 1 had only to replace his ball, with no penalty to him or player 2.

Thanks for the question from Neville Crane - probably sufficiently complex to be referred to the R&A for a ruling!!

My view is as follows!  This was fourball stableford - each player plays his own ball, the better ball on each team counts for scoring purposes and the worst score on each hole is 0 points.

Once player 2 had moved player 1's ball, the proper procedure was that player 1 incurred a 1 stroke penalty and should have replaced it where it lay after his first stroke and played his 3rd scoring stroke from there ; the fact that player 2 moved it several times is irrelevant.   The penalty was incurred by player 1, even though it was player 2's action that caused the penalty.

Player 2 incurred no penalty and provided the alcoholic haze permitted him to score reasonably well on the hole, presumably his score would have counted as the team score on that hole.

My alternative view............stay off the Castlemaine XXXX.

Best regards,

Hadyn

Thanks in anticipation.

Mine's a Guinness, please!!

Peter should probably stick to buying the pints - as at least his colleague was half right!

A provisional may only be played when the original might be out of bounds or lost somewhere other than in a water hazard.  If, as in Peter's case, it could only have been lost in a water hazard then the other ball is not a provisional.

However, contrary to his view, he most certainly did need a ruling.

The bad news is that the second ball becomes the ball in play and he can't then play the original ball.   The even worse news is that he should have played from the spot from which the original was played and incurred a 1 stroke penalty.  Having played from considerably nearer the hole than the original spot and then having played the original ball when he wasn't entitled to, Peter would have been considered to be in serious breach of the rules and should have been disqualified.

But as it was a game between friends.........!!

Best regards,

Hadyn

Is it true you cannot be disqualified from a comp once the result is posted on a noticeboard at the completion of the final round?

Thanks for the question from John Miles.

Alas, not quite as simple as you'd think!   A player may be disqualified after a competition has closed (meaning when the result has been officially announced) but only if he has returned a score lower than that actually taken, knowingly declared a wrong handicap or agreed to the waiver of a rule or knowingly have been in breach of any other rule for which the penalty is disqualification.

See Tha Golf Rules Dictionary section D7 Disqualification

Best regards,

Hadyn